IMHO, I think they must have some idea how beloved Nuke is as their new ads that spotlight all CBS soaps does include Luke and Noah in an affectionate pose. I was glad to see that. I just think they are going slow, albeit a little too slow, trying to get some of the older viewers a little more used to seeing a gay couple. My mom, who is in her seventies, has a hard time seeing them, but with the pacing of the story, it doesn't bother her as much as I thought it might.

I'm with you. But maybe they think that Luke and Noah only appeal to a certain segment of the audience. They are wrong. I'm a straight female who loves Luke and Noah.

I don't get why they were only on Monday this week. It's not like there is nothing for them to do. Since they sort of got back together, why can't Luke and Noah talk about what they went through and then have a little fun together. They should focus on them being a couple. Chris and Alison got to fly a kite, Parker and Liberty got to have fun playing football, Carly and Holden got to ride horses, Aaron and Alison got to ride on a motorcycle. Why is it only angst for Luke and Noah? What is wrong with them having a little fun and romance this summer? If they get back to Luke and Noah this week, and they have already had sex off screen, I will be disappointed. Last summer Luke and Noah went swimming at the pond and that is when they aired those hot shirtless scenes with them playing tug of war with the towel. Can't there be more of that?! To not feature this hot couple this summer is a mistake and a waste.

I would like to see them have fun instead of dredging up the colonel, or any bad memories. Let them start making new happy ones. Let them go back to the lake and just be a normal couple. We saw some of the others have fun, Why can't we see it in Luke and Noah. This is a great supercouple, ATWT needs to explore all the possibilities.

Quote: I'm a straight female who loves Luke and Noah.Me too, & it's these boys that brought me back to ATWT.Quote:I don't get why they were only on Monday this week. It's not like there is nothing for them to do. Since they sort of got back together, why can't Luke and Noah talk about what they went through and then have a little fun together. They should focus on them being a couple. Chris and Alison got to fly a kite, Parker and Liberty got to have fun playing football, Carly and Holden got to ride horses, Aaron and Alison got to ride on a motorcycle. Why is it only angst for Luke and Noah? What is wrong with them having a little fun and romance this summer? If they get back to Luke and Noah this week, and they have already had sex off screen, I will be disappointed. Last summer Luke and Noah went swimming at the pond and that is when they aired those hot shirtless scenes with them playing tug of war with the towel. Can't there be more of that?! To not feature this hot couple this summer is a mistake and a waste. See, that's it for me exactly. Can't they be given even one piddly moment of pure, unadulterated fun? Ali & Chris in the kite scene & Puberty playing football in the park made me wish Nuke could be like that too. Just one moment where they don't have the weight of the world on their shoulders. Unfortunately, if recent spoilers are accurate it doesn't look like Luke & Noah (or Nuke fans) will be getting a respite from the cloud-o'-doom that seems to hover over them constantly. Where's the romantic summer we were promised?

I'm going with the possibility that Luke and Noah will be facing the next crisis totally together, and that some summer fun will be their respite against whatever crisis awaits them - a crisis not to tear them apart, but for them to rise above together. Quote:I don't get why they were only on Monday this week. It's not like there is nothing for them to do. Since they sort of got back together, why can't Luke and Noah talk about what they went through and then have a little fun together. They should focus on them being a couple. Chris and Alison got to fly a kite, Parker and Liberty got to have fun playing football, Carly and Holden got to ride horses, Aaron and Alison got to ride on a motorcycle. Why is it only angst for Luke and Noah? What is wrong with them having a little fun and romance this summer? If they get back to Luke and Noah this week, and they have already had sex off screen, I will be disappointed. Last summer Luke and Noah went swimming at the pond and that is when they aired those hot shirtless scenes with them playing tug of war with the towel. Can't there be more of that?! To not feature this hot couple this summer is a mistake and a waste. See, that's it for me exactly. Can't they be given even one piddly moment of pure, unadulterated fun? Ali & Chris in the kite scene & Puberty playing football in the park made me wish Nuke could be like that too. Just one moment where they don't have the weight of the world on their shoulders. Unfortunately, if recent spoilers are accurate it doesn't look like Luke & Noah (or Nuke fans) will be getting a respite from the cloud-o'-doom that seems to hover over them constantly. Where's the romantic summer we were promised?

It sounds like they are going to go into this foundation thing together. I'm glad about that at least. I just wish that they would have a respite from whatever crisis. It looks like they are just going directly into the next crisis. Today they just seemed like filler. It also felt like none of the events of the past couple of months happened and they are back to where they were. When are they going to move forward?

It also looks like Luke and Noah are going to remain platonic best buddies who love cake and cookies! After all they have been through, they're going back to the farm where they have decided that they will remain chaste for the rest of their lives. Jack and Janet have no problem breaking the rules. Why can't Luke and Noah. I would actually have no problem with their decision to wait if we had gotten some solid reasoning as to why they were choosing to do so. They do have a valid reason for wanting to wait in my opinion, but those reasons were not brought to light.

I agree that there are reasons why the guys might wait, most notably that they've had a very difficult few months and they still need to rebuild their relationship before taking it further. I could understand and accept that. But the show doesn't even explain that, they basically put the guys right back where they started before Ameera came to town. Some couples actually do want to wait to have sex. If they had a little explanation and some insight, maybe a lot of fans wouldn't be upset by what happened yesterday.

That line about waiting was perhaps the clumsiest possible way to let us know that nothing happened after that hug last week. I hope and pray that it does not portend more waiting. I can see giving them a few weeks to reconnect after the strife they've suffered, but if they're still virgins a month from now something is wrong.

Van mentioned to someone at the Emmys that gay marriage will be brought up by one of the characters in the near future. My fervent hope is that Emma will be the one to bring it up, that she'll recognize that despite the fact that they can't marry in Illinois, Luke and Noah are a real and committed couple and Noah is quite a bit more than a suitor, and that it would be okay for them to share a room. The show seemed to use Emma in December to represent a segment of the viewership that wasn't ready for the boys to share a bed (when she first explained her rules) and it would be fitting for her to be the one to say, effectively, that Luke and Noah have earned the right to be together--in every way.

Mala I called the ATWT Comment Line today and they are asking us now name and where I'm calling from one person was asked thier age do you have any idea why they are saking that now I have called before and was never asked is some thing coming up?

It amazes me how many couples has had sex before they were even married but Luke and Noah haven't yet. They are the most committed then anyone on the show except for a few. Carly and Holden are not involved but have feelings and they have and looks like they are going to do a repeat performance. Jack and Janet had also. Before we know it, Liberty and Parker will be heading down that road. At least let Luke and Noah be a little bit romantic about it.

I have no idea why they'd ask for names and ages, Ron but I have two theories. #1: They want demographic information, so they can see what kind of viewers are calling in or #2: They're just making sure you're real, that the calls are all coming from different people and not spammers.

Thank you
Mala

A friend told me after they asked him his name and where he was calling from he asked why and he was told they

Mala I loved your "opinion" on Parker and Liberty in this week's magazine! I absolutely adore Parker and am getting to like Liberty but I am not enjoying this sexually charged story. There is more than enough time for that. Let them have some teenage fun and stop the focus on sex! What happened to the fun summer days at the Yacht Club or Country Club. Both Parker and Lib could have worked at the Country Club and had some fun story around that. There is time for this down the road!

I agree--there was no reason to bring sex into this story so soon! And with my cable guide telling me that "Parker and Liberty take a major step in their relationship" on Thursday and "deal with the consequences of their decision" on Friday...I'm kind of afraid they're about to beat Luke and Noah to bed!Mala, is there any reason to hope I'm wrong?

Along with this thinking, Mala, I have an opinion question for you. Having worked in the soap business, do you think that when Luke and Noah finally get down to business, will the show share it/spoil it/publicize it in the soap press - or will they choose to make it a surprise? The show caught hell from Ms. Hinsey after they aired kiss #3 after a 200+ day kissing ban ended and did NOT publicize it in anyway. After that, almost, but not every, subsequent kiss has been publicized in the soap press (as if it's an event to tune into as, of course, it's not going to happen as often as other couples because they're still not being treated like other couples..but I digress). So, Mala, having gone through the craziness that the show went through in their decision to not publicize the surprise kiss, how do you think the show will handle their first time? Will you guys be instructed to spill the beans, or will they surprise the audience so as not to get the homophobic viewers watching upset in advance? I know what you're going to say is just your best guess, but I'm curious, being in the industry, how you think they will handle the situation.Either way, it's going to be interesting to see how the show handles it. After all, SEX sells, and if it didn't, it wouldn't be the largest word on the cover of SOD this week. But does the show think that sex between Luke and Noah will sell/be palatable to their audience?Also...if Parker and Liberty do it first..considering I think they've already kissed more than Luke and Noah (or at least it's close), I'm just going to hurl.

We all know that Parker and Liberty will have sex way before Luke and Noah. Everyone else has (Jack and Janet, Holden and Carly, not to mention Brad and Katie before they were married, Henry and Vienna). I feel like P&G don't want to push that envelop just yet. They might lose viewers if they show too much gayness. They might also lose sponsors for airing it. I think what might happen will be they will have a romantic evening then that's where it will cut off and 3 days later you might see hear them talk about it. But then again, I could be wrong.

I think they will show something. Nothing Brad/Katie style, but like I said before. We already saw them kissing on a bed and taking each other's shirts off. I really get the idea right now that they're working to the moment of Luke and Noah's first time. They mention it in every episode now and I think it wouldn't make sense for the writers to do that and then not go through with it.

But if P&G doesn't want to push the envelope "just yet," they NEVER will. I mean, they actually thought pushing the envelope was showing them kiss, hence the ban that lasted well over 200 days. Well, actually that was because they listened to hate groups instead of fans that watch the show, but let's not have this discussion now. P&G owns the show and hence sponsors quite a bit of it, I do believe, so in the end, the decision is theirs.Also, if they were worried about losing viewers by showing too much "gayness," they should have never started the storyline in my opinion as a gay storyline requires showing "gayness," or else what do you have? People who claim to be gay, but show zero signs of it. I really think though that the show should and can have a love scene between the two. It can be done tastefully, and honestly doesn't have to show more then they've already shown - remember the bed jumping scene? But I suppose time will tell whether the show is truly moving forward, or is going to backtrack again.

Whatever the reason, I still believe it will be a long time before we see Luke and Noah having sex. Parker and Liberty will have it before they do. Unless ATWT do without letting anyone know until it's done. Times have changed since Roseanne so I'm hoping the sponsors of ATWT and P&G will have a open mind and do the scene a tasteful way. I wonder how many people who are affliated with the show ever read these post?

Parker and Liberty having sex is freaky on its own, without having to compare it to Luke and Noah and who gets to have sex first. I feel like I JUST talked to Mick Hazen about Parker's first kiss. It's just too soon and too fast.

And, honestly, I see everyone getting up in arms about Noah and Luke not having a love scene, but is that even common on non-cable primetime shows? There's been a smattering of kisses here and there, but I can't necessarily recall much "going all the way" between pairs. I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Tara and Willow and Kennedy and Willow were implied as sexual partners, with lead-in scenes and shots of T/W in bed together, but lesbians have always been far more eroticized in media and tend to slide under the radar more easily.

I don't think Will or Jack on Will & Grace were ever shown as being really sexual with their partners, beyond kissing and that show was on for years.

Soaps aren't as steady and don't have a foothold in the Nielsens like they used to. Like it or not, ATWT does have to be cautious and worry about sponsors and networks.

Mala I think knowing Mick just turned 15 makes it especially uncomfortable. This isn't a 20 something playing a teen. And I think the fact that we have watched Parker since the day he was born, even if he had some interesting growth spurts lol, makes us feel more protective of him. I know you can't say but I get the feeling from reading some spoilers that Parker and Liberty won't have sex but rather the parents will just think they did. I sure hope that is the way it goes and the show doesn't have them do the deed this year. Slow down; there's still plenty of time for that. If they go there, I expect a huge backlash from the fans. I haven't seen anyone that wants it to happen.Another question Mala. I know you can't say much about the story but I am curious if you can say whether the continuing story with Dr. Decker is going to play out for a while or if it is just short term? I just love John James as Rick Decker and wish we could keep him around a long time! He's like a breath of fresh air for the show!

Mala, I think what's troubling isn't just the fact that Luke and Noah aren't having a love scene but that we're expected to accept that they're still not having sex. At least the show is addressing the issue this week, but they're definitely running out of time before this crosses over from sweet and romantic to farcical. (And I'm being generous--for many fans the line was crossed a long time ago.)And Will and Jack actually woke up together on Will and Grace, though of course it turned out they hadn't been having sex. But both men were portrayed as having sex lives. While it might have been nice to see those lives on display a bit more, at least the show respected the viewers and characters enough to be honest. Plenty of people know someone like Will or Jack, but I have yet to meet a college-age gay couple who have been dating for almost a year and haven't had sex. Anyway, as I've said before, the show doesn't need to show anything new to achieve a sex scene that most Luke/Noah fans will embrace. And if it's already shown all it needs to show and survived, why not show it again?

Quote:And, honestly, I see everyone getting up in arms about Noah and Luke not having a love scene, but is that even common on non-cable primetime shows? There's been a smattering of kisses here and there, but I can't necessarily recall much "going all the way" between pairs. I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Tara and Willow and Kennedy and Willow were implied as sexual partners, with lead-in scenes and shots of T/W in bed together, but lesbians have always been far more eroticized in media and tend to slide under the radar more easily.We

Sadly, I think the show would not really be any better off with Nuke's fans with just impliing that Luke and Noah had sex or have been. I am sure there fans would not be happy with it just being implied.

So pretty much the only way the show is going to make those fans happy is if they actually show the love scene.

I am beyond bugged by Liberty and Parker having sex, just because they are way to young. But for me it makes it much worse that the show is probably going to have them have sex, on the same day that they are going to have a couple that has been together for a year, wait again. I almost think that is going to be a bigger mistake then them making Nuke wait. People will be going on, on and on with the double standards talk, the way the show is setting this up.

Though I am sure there might be some point that we will see that it was not good for Parker and Liberty to do it, but I don't think Nuke fans will pay much attention to the point the show was trying to make.

I still think that they're sort of 'preparing' the audience for some kind of love scene between Luke and Noah. They keep mentioning it in every episode now (they even let someone, Janet, point out that they can break Emma's rules). If the show was not going to let them 'be together' would they keep mentioning it like that?

I would be happy with a combination of the scene where they took their shirts off and the scene where they were kissing on the bed. And after a fade to commercial they can come back with some sort of afterglow scene. That's not really something they haven't done already.

VanFan125 - I tend to agree with you. For everyone saying that they'd be happy with a fade-to-black or just some reference that Nuke is sexually active, you'll have five more Nuke fans saying they wanted more than that and then pitching a fit about how the show is still being homophobic.

Quote:Why people continue to insist that Luke & Noah haven

I think the people who are not comfortable with Luke and Noah are already fast forwarding them or have stopped watching already.

Maybe they're afraid to lose viewers but there were a lot of negative reactions after the first kiss, but ATWT still ended up at #3 in the ratings.

About the whole Parker/Liberty thing: The reason why I don't want them to have sex is not because they would do it before Luke and Noah. I just can't get over the age difference between the actors. It creeps me out.

Quote:VanFan125 - I tend to agree with you. For everyone saying that they'd be happy with a fade-to-black or just some reference that Nuke is sexually active, you'll have five more Nuke fans saying they wanted more than that and then pitching a fit about how the show is still being homophobic.That's just not true. There are many Nuke related communities and fansites; nobody is expecting QAF-like scenes between Luke & Noah. Quote:Who's saying Noah and Luke aren't being treated differently? Of COURSE they're being treated differently, artspirit, because they ARE different. They're something new, something groundbreaking, and while a year may seem like forever to some people, in soap time, it's nothing. It's a blink. There's nothing "inexplicable" about them being slowed down. It's absolutely on purpose because they're the first frontburner gay male couple on a soap. I, personally, could care less if they do it on every flat surface in Oakdale, but there is a LARGE portion of the audience that is way, way, WAY behind in accepting something they're not familiar with. We just got random kissing, and I think the show is going to tread carefully and continue to test the waters.I feel like I say this every few pages, but the Internet does not represent the entire soap viewing community, and just because we have vocal liberals here doesn't mean vocal liberals are the only viewership the show needs to play to.Well, with all due respect you have said before that Luke & Noah aren

I understand that the show has to tread lightly with this couple and sadly, the reasons why. But most folks see that as homophobia on the show's part, even though if they were truly homophobic, Luke and Noah wouldn't be on screen or they'd suffer terrible fates for being gay (other than not getting laid -- LOL!). I also think that the show does have to treat L/N somewhat differently, but part of the problem is that the show has always insisted that they were treating L/N like other pairings when it was obvious that they were not. Then again, what are they supposed to say? Saying they have to be careful because of this reason or that would tick off the fans, but so does saying they are no different than other couples, but holding off with the sex. But I've often felt that the show can't win no matter what they do so all they can do is just keep telling the story the way they think is best. And for the most part, it's been more good than bad, IMO.And you're right that fans want a love scene, or at least most of them. If they didn't get it, again, they'd accuse the show of being bigots.But you can count on there being plenty of outrage and cries of homophobia after this Thursday's episode on the part of L/N fans given Luke and Noah do talk sex life and why things haven't progressed further, while a 15 year old boy loses his virginity. As I said, I don't have a problem with L/N waiting as long as it's a reason that makes sense on screen, such as Noah telling Luke that after everything that has happened, such as losing his father, he just needs time to emotionally heal and get himself together. Just because Noah didn't join the military doesn't mean he's still not torn up over things. That would make sense in terms of story. And if this were to become a conflict between Luke and Noah, that would certainly make sense and be very real as well. It's an issue every couple deals with.And my issue with P/L having sex is certainly not about L/N. I think L/N fans spend way too much time looking at what the other couples are doing. But I digress. My issue with P/L is that they are too young, WAY too young and they're eating up much too much airtime that couples like L/N, Em and Casey, Henry and V. and even Brad and Katie should be having. But if the show stresses they are too young and there's a price to be paid for sex too soon, I'm down with that. Just not four days a week please!

The show can't win and neither can I, AnthonyL. LOL. artspirit - Have I said before that Luke and Noah's pace isn't particularly unique and that other soap couples have moved this slowly? Yes, of course I have. But it's also fairly obvious that the choices made WITHIN that slow pace are being made because ATWT wants to handle Nuke sensitively. I've said that before, too. I don't think I'm contradicting myself with those two schools of thought. If anything, they go hand in hand. The fact that soap couples move slowly allows for ATWT to take their time with Noah and Luke. If it was a 12 episode or 22 episode season, it'd be a different story. Literally.I think the bottom line is that if the show weren't interested in telling Luke's story, they wouldn't be telling it. Period. He'd be on the backburner with Aaron and Henry and Bonnie or, worse, in the ether with John Dixon.And consistently saying that only Noah/Luke fans vision for ATWT matters and that the show shouldn't care about offending the detractors is short-sighted. As I've also said before, the show is a business in an industry that is no longer the powerhouse it once was.

I think the biggest problem with Luke and Noah waiting with sex is that they both want to do it (since January/February), but because of Emma's rules they don't. Why not go away for the weekend or go to a hotel or something? I don't think it's wrong that they've waited so long, I actually like the fact that they didn't hop into a bed a few weeks after they started dating. But at least make the reason for them waiting realistic.But... I have a question about something else, Mala. Will we see more of Rick Decker or was that it last week? I thought I saw a spoiler about it, but I'm not sure. I really loved seeing him back in Oakdale. It made Sofie's murder mystery (*ahem* Mystery? LOL) a lot more interesting.

A question about something else? Is that allowed? LOL.Don't worry, I suspect there's plenty more Rick Decker to come. The guy's too brilliant for them to only have him on for 2 episodes.

Yeah, what a shock, huh? LOLI'm looking forward to more Dr. Death. Like you said, the guy is brilliant.

I'd like to take a moment to address many different points made in the last few pages by various posters.First off, I don't think it's fair to compare ATWT to Buffy or Will and Grace. Buffy went off the air FIVE years ago. A lot of things have changed in that time! Will & Grace went off the air 2 or 3 years ago, and even since then, things have changed. I mean, in this time, who would have thought that we would almost have a female president, still might have an african american president, and that gay marriage would be legal in two states, w/ civil unions being legal in many others. We live in a time, my friends, where change happens, and happens FAST, and if people can't keep up with it, that's their problem. So honestly, if we're going to compare the show to anything, we can't do it to anything in the past, but have to do it to what's on TV now - in 2008 -like Ugly Betty, Brothers & Sisters, and Passions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Passions already have a gay love scene - while it was on NBC? So, while this is still "new," it's not like it hasn't been done before.Regarding the people on the show being skiddish regarding what to show...Barbara Bloom has stated repeatedly in the press that CBS has NEVER asked the show to "censor" or "hold back" Luke and Noah. Like I've said before, about a month ago, SOW stated that the show would now be treating Luke and Noah "just like any other couple." I'm sorry, but if you're going to make these statements to the press, you have a responsibility to living up to those. If not, you're being dishonest and deceitful, and I have no tolerance for that. So, if we are to believe P&G and Ms. Bloom's statements, they would have no problem showing a very mild love scene between the two.And why should they be worried? The show has gone on record stating that last year, the couple helped bring up the ratings. Of course, those ratings gains are now gone due to IMHO tons of cast changes and horrific writing during the writers' strike. As Mark said, and as a former Y&R writer said in an interview yesterday, after a year, anyone that is so offended by this SL has left the show or just fastfowards their scenes. And if they're not watching anymore, or just fastforwarding the scenes, why should the show cater to them? Why can't the show, for once, appease the fans, instead of the people that aren't fans?I disagree with whoever posted that the internet isn't a general represtation of soap viewers everywhere. People are online EVERYWHERE - in the bible belt, in NY, in Cali, ..EVERYWHERE. And people from all throughout the US post online, including soap fans. I've read many soap msg boards and am always amazed at the diversity represented by people posting on those. People from all throughout the world, w/ different backgrounds and faiths, post online, so I would honestly say that the internet does represent people of all values, creeds, etc. etc. I mean, there isn't just love for nuke online, but if you look hard enough, you can see a little hate on some boards, but to be honest, that hate has started to fade more and more over the past year as people either have come to accept the couple, have come to ff their scenes, or have stopped watching.I honestly don't think there's anything wrong w/ comparing Luke and Noah to other couples. They have a big fanbase and have been told that they would be treated like other couples, so in my opinion, I don't think there's anything wrong w/ the fans keeping them honest. It's one thing to not be treated like other couples, but when someone lies and said that they are going to be, but aren't...well, that's in my opinion, adds insult to injury.These are just my opinions, and of course, they vary.

I don't think it's fair for people to acknowledge that Luke and Noah are a first, and groundbreaking, and then at the same time try to compare the handling of their story to other stories....because if they are truly groundbreaking for daytime (and my opinion is that they are), that's the same thing as saying there's nothing to compare them TO. So why try? I know that people who watch Luke and Noah probably get to see other simillar stories in nighttime TV, from TV in other countries via the internet (where the censorship rules are probably more lenient), etc. - my point is, I think it's wrong to judge Luke and Noah based on other stories not bound by the "rules of Daytime." This story IS a first, and my belief is, that patience from ALL viewpoints is called for, no matter how hard it is to be patient. No matter how long it takes to "get what one wants" from Luke and Noah's story, it's worth waiting for, because the alternative is to give up altogether, and it would probably take a long, long time for anyone else to even try again. With this story, ATWT has done miracles in the past year in the quest for tolerance and acceptance and the notion that it's wrong not to allow others the right to live their own lives - when the naysayers enjoy that right for themselves. In this new world of endless choices, and instant gratification in cyberspace, I understand that "I want it my way and I want it now and if I don't get it, I can find it somewhere else" is becoming the way of life....but in this case, ATWT is truly the first of it's kind by putting Luke and Noah on daytime...sometimes I wish all those other choices weren't there, just for awhile, and then I'll bet the impatient folks here just might see Luke and Noah's story for the daring, courageous move that it is. They're slowly teaching one portion of their audience, many of whom may not use the internet for entertainment, and as a result may not have any of those other choices -- an important lesson - and slowly, they're actually getting through where no one before them ever has. And THAT makes all the patience in the world worth it.

Today was absolutely awful. I can't think of anything positive to say about it except that it's over. I think I got whiplash as the show tore through about two weeks of story.The wrap up of Sofie's murder was as bad as the wrap up of the Dusty murder mystery storyline. It made no sense with holes all over the place. I think this show really needs to give up murder mysteries.Wasn't it just two weeks ago that Chris and Ali were at each other's throats? Now they are openly flirting? BTW, that whole scene about the running.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............................ ...And tomorrow? Parker calling Carly a [censored]? That is totally wrong (even if it's true!)

If a brand new poster can be so bold... I have to second many of the points Luthers Corners makes. I was going to post something along those lines before I saw that post appear. By the way, before I say more, I'm also a huge fan of Luke & Noah (sometimes rabid! LOL). I love their very recent more relaxed intimacy and would love to see them have a steamy love scene.But I also think we have to be realistic. I think Mala's points are also valid. Soaps are an industry and they DO have to take the customer base and social environment into account. I think that sometimes we (the fans) get so impatient that we forget to acknowledge everything that ATWT/CBS **HAS** done. And what they have done is significant. No one else has done this on daytime -- and no one else probably will for some time because of all the flack P&G/ATWT/CBS has had to deal with the past year. And in spite of it all, they are continuing with the story line. That IS something. The Nuke fans HAVE been the winners so far. It really bothers me when I read on various boards people saying "I'm so tired of this BS...I'm just about ready to give up on this story.." That is so incredibly short-sighted. Give up in favor of what else exactly?I may be older than some of you (I don't know for sure), but when I started watching soaps in high school in the early 70's, I could never have even **dreamed** I'd see something like Nuke on a soap! It took 30 years to get this far. Personally, I'm willing to wait a bit longer to see Nuke get it on! I didn't say I WANT to, but I'm willing! LOL As another poster said, I also have never met a college age gay couple who dated for almost a year and never had sex. However, other than sex, Nuke is being portrayed as a loving couple, they have the support of Luke's family, they ARE being allowed to be increasingly affectionate with each other, overall the show portrays the relationship as being respected by family and friends... That IS significant.Unfortunately, the US is not like Europe in its outlook on sexuality. Hopefully, someday soon we will get there, but unfortunately, not day. I can't help but believe that Luke & Noah, as they are portrayed right now, are a very positive image for society at large to see. I think it's a win situation even without the sex. I hope we can just take a deep breath and be patient a little longer. As Luke said..."Just breathe!" LOL Just my humble 2 cents worth...

Quote: I think that sometimes we (the fans) get so impatient that we forget to acknowledge everything that ATWT/CBS **HAS** done. And what they have done is significant. No one else has done this on daytime -- and no one else probably will for some time because of all the flack P&G/ATWT/CBS has had to deal with the past year. And in spite of it all, they are continuing with the story line. That IS something. The Nuke fans HAVE been the winners so far. First off, why do people keep saying this has never been done on daytime before? There have been other gay couples before. Granted, this is almost certainly the most popular gay couple, and hence the fans are asking to see the story told fully, but they're not the first.I would give CBS/ATWT tons of credit for starting this storyline. I also give them a lot of credit for the way in which it was told, that is, up until Christmas time. However, after that, in my opinion, the story went sour - but has recently shown signs of regaining its footing - as did the way in which it was told. I feel no sympathy, however, for P&G/ATWT as they're the ones who had a phone conference w/ the AFA (according to the Boston Globe) and listened to them instead of the fans who watched the show, and because of that, started the kissing ban. They should be ashamed of having done that, and should have apologized to the fans for cowering to hate groups, but I don't think our apology will ever be forthcoming.And if Nuke fans are really "winning now," which I'm honestly not sure if they are as the show almost seems as if it's going backwards w/ the Luke and Noah relationship instead of forwards, but if in your opinion, fans are "winning," that's only because they've had to fight consistently with the show. If they had not, we would be going on kissing ban day 300+ ..or at least close to that.Quote:However, other than sex, Nuke is being portrayed as a loving couple, they have the support of Luke's family, they ARE being allowed to be increasingly affectionate with each other, overall the show portrays the relationship as being respected by family and friends... That IS significant.I would disagree regarding how much affection we've been seeing. In my opinion, I'm seeing less and less each time out instead of more and more. Also, while I do agree that both characters are respected by family and friends, it's getting to the point where both are almost portrayed as saints, which is just silly. There is no reason not to give them flaws..but flaws that we all have..like Luke having a bad temper or Noah being dumb sometimes (oh wait...!). Anyway, it just seems like both are being written to almost be close to perfect, and sexless, and that's just getting really old in my opinion.Quote: I think it's a win situation even without the sex. I hope we can just take a deep breath and be patient a little longer. As Luke said..."Just breathe!" LOL Just my humble 2 cents worth... Here's the thing. The show keeps on bringing up sex. What the hell is the point of teasing Nuke fans w/ the discussion if they're not going to do it? You know what it reminds me of? Yep, the 101 "almost" kisses that the show kept producing where the two would go in for a kiss and then stop because someone walked by. Did the show not learn that fans do NOT appreciate having the double standard/discrimination thrown in our faces? Either stop w/ the continuous sex talk so we continually don't have the double standard thrown in our faces, or just let it happen and see if the world ends. That's all I'm asking for...but I guess we'll see what happens on Thursday, the only day this "frontburner" couple is appearing this week.

To my knowledge, a story like Luke and Noah's hasn't been done before, in that the depiction of an ongoing gay male couple. There haven't been that many gay male characters and their stories started and ended with the character coming out of the closet, usually disappearing after that story. There was Michael Delaney and that doctor he dated, but their romance took place completely off screen and their on screen scenes usually had a woman (Myrtle or Gloria) standing between them. They ultimately did move in together and shortly vanished thereafter. I'd say Luke and Noah got a little bit more than that!So Luke and Noah are unique and groundbreaking and continue to be so, in both daytime and nighttime. It's not as if mainstream network television is riddled with gay characters and ATWT is holding back on theirs while everyone else gives them free reign. CBS or NBC have no other gay characters and while ABC has more, only one, Brothers and Sisters, gives their gay character an ongoing love life. On the other shows the gay characters are sidekicks or comic relief. So despite what folks might think there's really not that much choice out there in seeing gay folks regularly on your screen. I'm hardly saying we should take whatever crap ATWT chooses to give viewers (not that I feel we are being given crap -- for the most part), but that people should appreciate the unique... and frankly difficult position the show is in.I don't mind the slow pace... and a year isn't unusual for a soap couple to wait to have sex. I think the issue is that on THIS show, couples don't wait that long, not anymore. Romances move with blinding speed and sex comes fairly quickly (i.e. Parker and Liberty) so when you see Luke and Noah taking their sweet time while sex rages around them, you can see why fans would be upset. The reality that the show might need to take things more slowly doesn't cut much ice with L/N fans. The same with the belief that they shouldn't care about the general audience for the show, just what L/N fans want. Sometimes folks don't realize that not everyone loves, loves, loves everything Luke and Noah and that there's all sorts of things that have to be taken into consideration when telling a certain story. I don't know if they get that or they just don't care.And I don't think most viewers or fans of the show go anywhere near a computer to talk about the show or a message board so the opinion you get on them are skewed at best.I can't speak to the accusations about the AFA rumors... and they are just rumors, and whatnot, except to say that there's always been conspiracy theories where this couple is concerned and most of them aren't really based in any fact, just the belief. If the show were really concerned about the AFA like fans think they are, Luke and Noah wouldn't be on our screen, their story wouldn't be continuing and the show wouldn't bother crafting a new story for them as they are currently doing. ATWT doesn't have to tell this story. They could end it tomorrow and move on to something else and probably save themselves a lot of grief from the haters that don't like the story.... and the fans that don't like the story as well.As for Luke and Noah portrayed as saints, I'll give folks that. Unfortunately, that comes with the fact that they are gay and the show doesn't want to portray them in a negative light. But I would love for Noah to have a dark side (and given his history, he should) or for Luke to be more of a Grimaldi (or even a Walsh) than he might appear. But Luke and Noah are always and will be a couple of good guys with only the best intentions.In terms of talking or not talking about sex, here's another situation where the show can't win. First off, PLENTY of couples over time have talked about sex over and over, wanted to have sex, but were unable to get to it or put it off for whatever reason. So if the guys suddenly stopped talking about sex or their desire for it or stopped having it be an issue between them, would truly be making them different from other soap couples. The tease is part of the romance. Plus, if Luke and Noah stopped talking about sex or expressing their need to have it, then the show would again be accused of making them sexless, being homophobic, so on and so forth.

Hey, NoahFan, thanks for the response! I think I understand the points you're making, but on some of them we may have to agree to disagree. Some of these things tend to be a matter of degree or perspective, and not a "right" or "wrong" situation. I don't tend to be a "my way or the highway" kind of person anyway.Quote:First off, why do people keep saying this has never been done on daytime before? There have been other gay couples before. Granted, this is almost certainly the most popular gay couple, and hence the fans are asking to see the story told fully, but they're not the first.It's very possible I've missed something. There were times in the 80's and 90's when I couldn't keep up with any of the soaps. I know there have been **gay people** on soaps in the past, but I'm not aware of couples with visible relationships. In fact, ATWT had a gay character I think in 1988 who didn't last on the show very long. Ryan Phillippe briefly played a gay role in one of the soaps a while back also. In my mind there is a huge world of difference between having men or women on a show that we know to be gay (or coupled) only because we are told that, not because we see evidence of a relationship or other indicator with our own eyes. Even with their flaws, and yes they do have them, Luke and Noah are the most developped gay characters to date -- that I know of. Their kiss was a first on daytime, their intimate discussions are a first, and their physical affection, as limited as it may be compared to "real life," is a first -- that I know of.Quote:I would give CBS/ATWT tons of credit for starting this storyline. I also give them a lot of credit for the way in which it was told, that is, up until Christmas time. However, after that, in my opinion, the story went sour - but has recently shown signs of regaining its footing - as did the way in which it was told. Here we agree! Let's hope it continues. G-d only knows why they couldn't wrap up Ameera as quickly as they did the Meg/Paul/Sofie/Barbara situation today! That was a little TOO quick and dirty...Quote:And if Nuke fans are really "winning now," which I'm honestly not sure if they are as the show almost seems as if it's going backwards w/ the Luke and Noah relationship instead of forwards, but if in your opinion, fans are "winning," that's only because they've had to fight consistently with the show. Here I have to say I still think we're "winning" more than we're "losing." Absolutely, it took a fight on the part of the fans to accomplish even this much. I'd like to think I had a tiny little part in that, too. I voted in the polls, made calls to comment lines, emailed, even sent some snail mail here and there. The folks who did all the website work and organizing are to be commended big time! But I'll be the first to admit that more still needs to be done. Time will tell whether I continue to think we're winning. Quote:...The show keeps on bringing up sex. What the hell is the point of teasing Nuke fans w/ the discussion if they're not going to do it? ... Either stop w/ the continuous sex talk so we continually don't have the double standard thrown in our faces, or just let it happen and see if the world ends. For the most part, I do agree! (For the most part...) It does tend to throw a double standard in our faces, which is pretty annoying, to say the least. **However**, the discussion of it, in and of itself, just may help the NON fans, little by little, to come to accept that making love is just as much a part of a gay relationship as a straight one. And also accept it when Nuke, hopefully, actually gets physical.It's very hard for me to totally accept a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" approach to Luke & Noah's story. I would **absolutely love it**, tho, if there were no holds barred! I do a fair amount of traveling, and come face to face with a lot of bigotry, fear, and misinformation. You don't erase that overnight, nor do you overcome it simply by not acknowledging that it exists. I think you overcome it by, little by little, continuing to push the envelope, gradually showing people that there's nothing to be afraid of or disgusted by. The time that takes IS frustrating--but worth it in the long run. I guess I'm a product of when and where I grew up--1970s midwest. I'm willing to accept less than perfection as long as incremental steps are being made. Luke & Noah's character development is not perfect, nor is the telling of their story. But it IS the best that has been done so far on a daytime soap. Now fans need to keep pushing for improvements. To insist on instant perfection is, I think, self defeating. Some might say my standards are too low. That's fine, but I've seen significant changes happen little by little. I saw on CNN the other day that when Clinton put through "Don't ask, don't tell," only 44% of the public believed gays should serve openly in the military. Now the figure is apparently 75%. Some changes happen more quickly these days, but it still takes time. P&G/ATWT/CBS need to keep being nudged...and made to sweat a little when they don't do what's right. And inconsistent/misleading responses to fans is not right. Just as you attract more flies with honey than vinegar, I still think we'll get better response if we do acknowledge what they HAVE done right.I'll end the soapbox here. My apologies for the length. A little friendly "showdown" once in a while is a good thing, I think! Also my apologies if I've inadvertently offended anyone...that was certainly not my intention.

i reall like what you said nereaderman . i live in the bible buckel. and this story as help alot of people even a 64 year old lady that lives in CO. some think if your not going to tell it one way then it should not been told but she fight that with she doesn't want to go back to the way she was before this story and now she want them on even more.

I have to agree with you. Parker and Liberty having sex is just freaky. To me it is about the age difference between the actors. Mick is 15 and Meredith Hagner is 21. That's a little creepy. I still will hate that Parker and Liberty will have sex before Luke and Noah. One more thing I hate about that is Parker and Liberty each have bedroom sets. If Luke and Noah ever have sex, will it be in Emma's kitchen or behind the counter at Java? Is it too much to ask for Luke and Noah to have bedroom sets? When Luke said he almost went to Noah's room, I thought I would have liked to see that! When Lucinda said something today about them moving in with her, my first thought was that we'd never see them again. I also just want to say something about this storyline changing people's minds. I really thought I wouldn't be comfortable or I wouldn't like watching the storyline. It was the amazing storyline and the chemistry between Jake and Van that changed my mind.

Quote:It's very hard for me to totally accept a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" approach to Luke & Noah's story. A year together and no intimacy is hardly "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead".

Quote:I still will hate that Parker and Liberty will have sex before Luke and Noah. Quote: One more thing I hate about that is Parker and Liberty each have bedroom sets. If Luke and Noah ever have sex, will it be in Emma's kitchen or behind the counter at Java? There's always Noah's Truck.

Quote:One more thing I hate about that is Parker and Liberty each have bedroom sets. When have we ever seen a bedroom set for Liberty? She and Parker were in Brad and Katie's bedroom so they could watch the big screen TV in there.As far as Luke and Noah, it's not like they are the only couple fans that are unhappy with the way their favorites are being written. Except for the Paul and Meg fans, I don't know of any couples fans that are particularly happy right now.

I really hope ATWT is prepared for the backlash of having Parker and Liberty have sex. It's wrong on so many different levels. I'm not sure what they are thinking, but I think a lot of viewers, especially Luke and Noah fans, will be very upset.

I haven't seen anyone that wants Parker and Liberty to have sex and for most of us it has nothing to do with Luke and Noah. We don't like the idea because we think it is the wrong story to do when they could be a fun young teen couple. There is no need to go there and a lot of us don't like that they would expect a young actor that is barely 15 to get involved in this. The story has just moved too fast and shouldn't be focusing on sex. I think the biggest outcry is because it's the wrong story to do rather than because Luke and Noah haven't had sex. Many couples wait a long time to have sex on the show and Nuke isn't the only one nor will they be the last one.

Hey, I'm agreement with you. My issue with the story has nothing to do with the boys. It's two separate issues, two separate stories in my mind. Parker and Liberty shouldn't be having sex for all the reasons you say and then some. I don't know why the show is rushing into this and I think there will be backlash. And I hardly think the show is actually saying it's okay for Parker and Liberty to have sex while the gay couple can't. But that's the way that Luke and Noah fans will see it to be sure. And as long as it makes sense and there's a good reason why, I don't have a problem with Luke and Noah waiting to have sex. I've watched soaps long enough to know that couples wait a lot longer than the months that the boys have been an item. It's not realistic, but it's the way soaps work. But as I've learned, a lot of people don't see the bigger picture.

Don't forget over on OLTL they have it that Star and Cole have has sex and now she is pregnant I say COPY CAT but we have to wait and see if our show will go with another baby story. With Luke and Noah if they had sex they could not get a baby story out of it

Quote: And I hardly think the show is actually saying it's okay for Parker and Liberty to have sex while the gay couple can't. But that's the way that Luke and Noah fans will see it to be sure.Thank you for speaking for all Nuke fans. Except...Not. I certainly don't believe TPTB are using Puberty as big thumbs up for teen sex Quote: And as long as it makes sense and there's a good reason why, I don't have a problem with Luke and Noah waiting to have sex.O.K., what's the good reason? Please, I'm asking sincerely -what are they waiting for?