some one has done math about there time and days. DaveD been doing that. he even done the math on other with more screen time.

AnthonyL, I think we could talk till we're blue in the face and we won't convince many people that Noah and Luke aren't being oppressed in terms of their airtime and story, and that's just sad, because as I keep saying, this is the ONE show on daytime where a gay story is being told at ALL.And that's important to remember: Noah and Luke have a story, they have an arc. They don't just pop up once a month to call somebody "my little wienerschitnzel" or hand someone a file and then vanish. I get that they have a big fanbase, but as I keep also repeating, ATWT's been on for fifty years and people do watch it for other stuff: Carjack, the Hugheses, Paul's various romantic trials, etc.ATWT didn't come into being just because they cast Luke a love interest!

Quote:We should learn it from Jake never being put on contract, allowing him to flee the show whenever he wants, though he is part of one of the most popular couples on the show (and he freakin' presented at the Emmy Awards last night, the only two from the show to present), but we didn't. Has anyone even asked Jake if he wants to be on contract? Some actors don't want a contract. Perhaps it's actually Jake's choice? And while I know Nuke fans have done plenty of campaigning for them to kiss, have they ever campaigned to get Jake a contract? It took years of campaigning by Trent's fans to get him a contract and he does credit the fans for helping. And again this year when word got out that his contract might be coming to an end, the fans spring into action and he again thanked us for helping with that. Henry is extremely popular with the fans yet most of his story is just propping other characters and he doesn't even have a real story. So thi sisn't a unique problem.As far as the Emmys the show usually has actors present for a story they are pushing. So that was a very good sign for Van and Jake to be presenting. Last year it was Brad and Katie. That they presented does show some commitment from the show.

Mala, I know people watch it for the other stories too, but it's just a little frustrating that when Noah was introduced, we didn't see him awhile after his first episode (he was introduced on friday, June 1 and his second episode was wednesday, June 13), while Liberty, also a new character, was right at the top of the episode count of her first month. I never expect to see them 4-5 days a week, but I don't think you can really tell a good story when they're on just one day during the week. I would be happy with 2-3 days a week.

My biggest problem with the show right now is that they keep casting all these new characters like Janet and Liberty, while they have great characters like Henry, Vienna, Dallas and Bonnie doing nothing. Luke and Noah at least have a story, so I'm happy with that.

Quote:Has anyone even asked Jake if he wants to be on contract? Some actors don't want a contract. Perhaps it's actually Jake's choice?Jake said not to worry about him not having a contract since having a contract these days doesn't mean that much anymore. I have to agree with Jake on that. Just look at what happened with Scott Bryce, Alexandra Chando and Elena Goode. They were all let go before their contracts ended.

Yes, this is the one show in daytime where a gay storyline is being told. But do they get credit just for telling it? Or should they only get credit if they tell it right? Many argue they were doing more harm then good during the gay kissing ban. In fact, people really still should be mad at that. Why? #1 - the show/P&G lied about it over and over again, claiming it was part of the "slow development" of the storyline. Of course, absolutely no one in the universe believes that to be true. They still to THIS day have never admitted their was a kissing ban, nor apologized for the censorship that was put on display every day with that ban in place. If they were asked today if there ever was a ban, they would definitely deny it. Maybe they just don't get that the ban not only offended but also hurt people in a deep way? While I don't expect them to come out and say flat out that they were censoring, a comment about "miscalculating" or having made a few "missteps" would have gone a long way in the forgiveness process. So it boils down to: are people just supposed to be happy that the story was being told in that way, with the censorship, despite it being highly offensive? Unfortunately, that censorship caused some to give up on the SL, and the Ameera SL probably caused even more to turn their heads.

In terms of airtime, Luke & Noah averaged a little more then one and a half episodes per week during the Ameera storyline. No one is expecting them to be on 5 days a week like Carjack and Liberty. A good 2-3 episodes per week would be nice - and that not only goes for Luke & Noah, but for most of the main cast. Featuring people 5 days a week is just silly in my opinion. Fans of others that had less airtime during that same time period should also complain if their favorites weren't on as much as they want. That's why there is, sort of, free speech on the internet. This show has sooo many characters that there are always people not featured or never featured. Because of that, I really wish they would downsize the cast just a tiny bit.

I think one reason is that Luke & Noah fans are always worried about many things,especially screentime, is because they've had a reason to be. If it's not the kissing ban/censorship that was going on for well over 200 days, there seems to be a new rumor every week that Jake and/or Van are being let go from the show. When you're constantly hearing that, constantly worrying if Jake is going to leave the show because he can do so if he gets a better offer because he doesn't have a contract with this show, constantly having censorship thrown in your face, worrying about groups like the AFA protesting and demanding the end of the SL, and getting one to two days of airtime per week, usually (but not always) being featured as the B or C storyline for the day, well, that's why many of us hold the opinions we hold.

WorldTurner: - People that participated in the media campaign did not just complain about the lack of affection. People also praised the show for how well the storyline had been handled prior to the discrimination, and also write in praise of both Van and Jake's work. While that's not the angle the press usually covered, it did get mentioned in a few places. So we really have campaigned for both of them, and will continue to do that whenever we have to.

One thing I want to add to my listing of items that Luke and Noah fans have gone through that I forgot to list.Many fans think that the Ameera storyline wasn't a storyline at all, but was devised merely as a way for the guys to be kept apart physically. Consider - you're a writer at ATWT, and you're writing, for the 16th time, a mosquito bites one of the two guys as they go in for a kiss, stopping them in their tracks. Obviously, that's getting quite old. You need to come up with another excuse to keep them from kissing. You need to at least attempt to make it less obvious that there is a kissing ban, though you know there is no way to make it less obvious. You want to keep the couple together, for the most part, but throw something into their storyline that prevents them from getting close. What is a writer to do?You got it! Greencard marriage! It's the perfect solution! It keeps the guys apart outside/in public as..who knows when the ICE (or is it AFA? Sometimes I get reality and fiction mixed up ) might be watching. Then when they're in private, they can use the excuse of having the girl "right outside the door" as a reason to not get close, or fall back to the ICE being the reason, even though it's not like they're watching through the windows, or are they?What a perfect way to keep the guys apart physically, yet keep them together, for the most part, as a couple. Of course, when the kissing ban ended, they kissed outside in what could have been POTENTIALLY full public view of the ICE, sort of making the entire storyline pointless at that point, though some would argue it was pointless from day one...but anyway. I guess Chris Goutman wrote it that way intentionally to say he doesn't care who might be offended.."so what if the ICE is watching" line many think was written to mean ICE=AFA.So basically, some fans think that the last 4 months of storyline hell was a sole result of the P&G head honchos enforcing a kissing ban on the couple. If that's the case, that is just shameful and pathetic. Personally speaking, I am not saying that is the case. It may or may not be. None of us will ever know as I don't think anyone with the show would ever answer the question, "would you have come up with the greencard marriage storyline for Luke and Noah if there wasn't a ban on same sex affection?" Well, I guess they might answer that question, but only after they retire from show business, but by that time, no one would probably care anymore.

I can't believe that people are griping about airtime from a year ago. Please! You can't compare Noah and Liberty's debut. Noah was a newbie character introduced as a love interest for a supporting character on the show in a story that *had* to be introduced and told slowly because a gay male romance hadn't been done before. Liberty is the show's new teen heroine related to one of the show's lead characters. And if you notice, now that she's been on the show a bit and introduced onto the canvas, her airtime is down considerably. I think fans spend much too much time worrying about this and that (even after the show, the actors, the magazines and everybody else has denied any all negative rumors and there have been changes regarding certain aspects of the couple's relationship). It takes away from the enjoyment some might get from watching them, IMO. And the endless conspiracy theories! Spare me! don't know why Luke and Noah fans see themselves as long suffering... especially for a storyline that hasn't been on even a year.

Quote:Quote:Has anyone even asked Jake if he wants to be on contract? Some actors don't want a contract. Perhaps it's actually Jake's choice?Jake said not to worry about him not having a contract since having a contract these days doesn't mean that much anymore. I have to agree with Jake on that. Just look at what happened with Scott Bryce, Alexandra Chando and Elena Goode. They were all let go before their contracts ended. Exactly. So was the chick that played Sofie. L/N fans went crazy when she got a contract. Well.... she's gone (or going) and Jake is still here (for now ) Again, something fans spend way too many hours fretting about.Besides, just because he doesn't have a contract as we know it in the traditional sense, he must have some sort of agreement/arrangement with the show, much like Cady did when she returned sans contract (in fact, she didn't have a contract much of her time with ATWT, yet she was with the show for years). I'm fairly certain ATWT would not lay out several months worth of story and not know if half the acting team may not be there.

I think fans spend much too much time worrying about this and that (even after the show, the actors, the magazines and everybody else has denied any all negative rumors and there have been changes regarding certain aspects of the couple's relationship). It takes away from the enjoyment some might get from watching them, IMO. And the endless conspiracy theories! Spare me! don't know why Luke and Noah fans see themselves as long suffering... especially for a storyline that hasn't been on even a year. I don't think fans right now should be worried, but I was referring to the past when no one knew for sure what was going on behind the scenes w/ Procter & Gamble. You might not have been concerned, but that doesn't mean other fans shouldn't have been! I mean, they are FANS after all. When a fan of a storyline has that storyline being attacked by anti-gay groups and has a kissing ban imposed upon it by the show itself, are fans just supposed to smile and be happy? Any true fan, in my opinion, would have been worried about this in the past, and they had a right to be. For now, I wouldn't worry about any of those things, but because people have had so much to worry about in the PAST, I don't blame anyone else for continuing to be worried as they have grown accustomed to it.Spare you the conspiracy theories? OK, I guess there wasn't a kissing ban then. I think we all made that up.Seriously, as there was a conspiracy to have a kissing ban, it isn't too far fetched that the plot that was written surrounding the couple that had a kissing ban could have been crafted as a convenient way to keep the couple from locking lips. MANY people believe this to be true, despite you thinking it isn't. But of course there are others who don't think it's true. Who is right? Who is wrong? None of us know, so ridiculing someone else's opinion on the matter when no one knows for certain isn't really that bright of an idea.Regarding Jake's contract status, I think fans realize that whether he had a contract or not, of course he could be let go at anytime. From the comments I've read from most people, most people that are concerned about this are because they want him tied to the show so that even if he got an offer to do some primetime tv show, for example, he wouldn't be able to do that unless the show was nice enough to let him out of his contract. Which brings up another point...does that happen often? Are many shows willing to let their stars out of long term contracts early for those stars to pursue other acting endeavors, or do they usually not allow that to happen?

Oh.... I don't think I said there wasn't reason to be concerned in the past....nor was I ridiculing anyone. There have been issues, and I certainly have had mine, but despite many of them having been resolved or removed or what have you, as I noted in my previous post, there are still the same old gripes and kvetching.

For example, a couple of weeks ago, the guys had a lot of really nice scenes and it was a solid day for them. But.... there was a lot of sniping that they were only on 10 minutes or 11 minutes or how many ever many minutes it was (I dunno, I don't have a stopwatch when I'm watching tv), never mind the strong performances and great dialogue. I guess that doesn't matter much if someone else that day happens to have a scene or two extra than the guys because that's what really matters. That was my point. It just gets kind of tired. But as Mala pointed out, you can talk until you're blue in the face and people will always believe that someone is out to undermine this story and this couple, including the show itself.

BTW, there are all different types of fans, with different concerns and expectations and wants and desires for the show and the couple. That doesn't make them any less or true of a fan than anyone else.

Quote:I can't believe that people are griping about airtime from a year ago. Please! You can't compare Noah and Liberty's debut. Noah was a newbie character introduced as a love interest for a supporting character on the show in a story that *had* to be introduced and told slowly because a gay male romance hadn't been done before. Liberty is the show's new teen heroine related to one of the show's lead characters.
Still, introducing a new character and then not showing him for 7 episodes in a row is a little too slow, IMO. About Liberty, it's true that she's related to characters on the show but why did they have to do that and at the same time introduce her as a love interest for guess what? A supporting character. It was too much Liberty. Why not first do the Katie/Brad thing and move her to her story with Parker after that? I don't think the best way to let viewers fall in love with new characters is to have them onscreen almost every day.

See, I don't think it's wrong to be slow with the introduction of new characters. I just think it was too slow with Noah. With Liberty it was clear from the very beginning that she was going to be a love interest for Parker, while it took a little while longer with Noah. Of course, we knew he was there for Luke, but it took a couple of weeks before we saw it onscreen.

Marland rule interduce a character slowly. don't shove them down the viewer throte. tied them to the canvos.ones that done good or better is Casey, little to slow is Noah. the shoved ones... Sofie Cole Mike Lib Janet

Quote:Quote:I can't believe that people are griping about airtime from a year ago. Please! You can't compare Noah and Liberty's debut. Noah was a newbie character introduced as a love interest for a supporting character on the show in a story that *had* to be introduced and told slowly because a gay male romance hadn't been done before. Liberty is the show's new teen heroine related to one of the show's lead characters. Still, introducing a new character and then not showing him for 7 episodes in a row is a little too slow, IMO. About Liberty, it's true that she's related to characters on the show but why did they have to do that and at the same time introduce her as a love interest for guess what? A supporting character. It was too much Liberty. Why not first do the Katie/Brad thing and move her to her story with Parker after that? I don't think the best way to let viewers fall in love with new characters is to have them onscreen almost every day.See, I don't think it's wrong to be slow with the introduction of new characters. I just think it was too slow with Noah. With Liberty it was clear from the very beginning that she was going to be a love interest for Parker, while it took a little while longer with Noah. Of course, we knew he was there for Luke, but it took a couple of weeks before we saw it onscreen. Uh.... viewers weren't supposed to know that Noah was gay and for Luke for quite some time, IIRC. Folks just assumed he was Maddie's new boyfriend. The situation with Liberty is completely different. No comparison. None. Different characters, different places on the show. It's just different. And Liberty isn't just Parker's girlfriend, she's Brad's daughter and that relationship had to be established.Again the Luke/Noah thing HAD to be told slowly. It had to, like it or not. I believe that the show had planned to 'out' Noah much earlier in the story, cause initially the story was that Luke and Noah would start dating shortly after they met, and Holden and Lily would be bugged that their gay son actually started dating men, but the show but changed their minds and threw in the Maddie wrinkle instead, which I think was much more interesting than doing Luke Comes Out To His Parents Part 2. BTW, I do think that she was on much too much early on and that's probably why many viewers haven't warmed to her. It hasn't exactly helped the ratings either as I'm sure viewers wondered why this newbie teen had suddenly taken over the show. The show made a terrible blunder in derailing the funny and sexy Brad and Katie romance with this mess. But, this show is making mistakes all over the place. Yes, I mean you Holden and Carly.I just don't think you can compare her debut and how it was handled with Noah's.

And I think you can compare them...With Liberty we got all the details about everything she did because we saw her so much, while with Noah we got just the "highlights". I think it was the third episode where Luke already realized his feelings for Noah. They could've done a better job with the build-up by showing them more while they were working together (on that non-existing Invisible Girl project perhaps?). But we saw them only a few times, it felt too rushed IMO. See, I don't have a problem with when things happened in the story, but I do have a problem with how they got there. Especially in the beginning.

Liberty was brought in as Brad's daughter, so much of her airtime was devoted to him reacting to her. It wasn't just Liberty for the sake of Liberty. It included Brad and Katie and Parker. And thank goodness they've dialed her down a bit in recent weeks. In any case, Noah was just some guy working at WOAK, no ties to anyone, and if he had been on every day when he was first on, I would have been pretty annoyed.

I'm sorry, but as a lifelong soap viewer, I will never believe anything but the fact that Luke and Noah have it good. REALLY good. Bonnie and Dallas are the ones people should be up in arms about. Has a black family had a story of their own anytime in the last five years?

I'm not saying I wanted Noah every day of the week. But 7 episodes between his first and second episode was too much, IMO.

And I actually agree with you about Bonnie and Dallas. I want them to have a story. Why did they fire Elena Goode? A Dallas/Jade (good cop/bad girl) pairing could've been interesting (and they actually forshadowed it a little in 2006 right after Raven Lake). The way they handle these characters is not right, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy with how other stories were handled.

The last few weeks with 2 days a week have been good actually. This week is back to one day, but I'm not going to complain about that. I'm talking about the beginning of their story.

Edit: Maybe I was just disappointed that after 7 months of Luke on the backburner we still saw so little of him with his love interest in town.

It is too bad that Ben disappeared and Jessica (Tamara Tunie) is too busy to be around, because their are so many storyline possibilities with those characters, since there history with the show is so rich. What about Denise and Andy's daughter, Hope? Andy was another character with lots of ties to Oakdale, including Mom Kim, and half sis Margo.There are plenty of characters that have fallen by the wayside that could reinvigorate some storylines since they have not been seen in so long. Remember Annie Stewarts sextuplets (wasn't it), I was in my early teens at that time, my memory may be faulty. Wouldn't a couple of those be interesting? Hey, maybe one of them could be a love interest for Luke or Noah?

I wish they would bring back Jessica. I've always love her. Annie's sextuplets were before my time. Don't know who Denise is, But I know remember Andy. Wish he would come back. Always thought Andy could be gay. I wish they would bring some of the old characters.

Quote:I'm sorry, but as a lifelong soap viewer, I will never believe anything but the fact that Luke and Noah have it good. REALLY good. I couldn't disagree with you more, that is, if you're referring to the way they've been treated in the past. I would go into detail on the reasons why, but I already have over the last two pages. If being censored constantly by the producers in charge of the show, people that are supposedly doing a pro-gay storyline and not an anti-gay storyline, and being attacked by hate-groups is being treated "good" according to you, I hate to see what you would consider being treated bad is.If you're referring to the way they're being treated CURRENTLY, well, I would say they're being treated mainly fine because, as your publication said weeks ago, they're now being treated just like any other couple, and thankfully the hate venom from the groups that wanted these two off the air has apparently died down. So right now, things aren't too bad. HOWEVER, in the past, they were not even close to being good.

Even when Noah and Luke weren't kissing on air, they were on air. That they had an intimate relationship of some sort was still being addressed (albeit with stupid cutaways and fades).

If the producers of ATWT were truly censoring and doing an anti-gay storyline, they wouldn't have two young gay men on the show, in a story, beloved by their friends and family. They wouldn't have two young gay men at all.

And being "treated bad", to me, pretty much involves real-life gay people being abused by hate groups and bigots or vicious portrayals of blatantly anti-gay attitudes. Luke and Noah were never in any danger from the AFA or anybody else. They're fictional. And ATWT had them beat down the one vicious instance of homophobia they encountered.

Quote:Even when Noah and Luke weren't kissing on air, they were on air. That they had an intimate relationship of some sort was still being addressed (albeit with stupid cutaways and fades).As I stated earlier, many people thought that by doing this, P&G was doing more harm then good. As was stated at the time by some folks, the show shouldn't have started the storyline if P&G wasn't committed to doing it. If they weren't going to do it justice, some say, they shouldn't have done it at all. The way they were treated offended many fans, and some, at the time, argued that if they were going to continue to treat the couple that way, that they should just stop the entire storyline. That's just how offended and upset some people were.Quote:If the producers of ATWT were truly censoring and doing an anti-gay storyline, they wouldn't have two young gay men on the show, in a story, beloved by their friends and family. They wouldn't have two young gay men at all.The writers & EP of the show I'm sure were not censoring nor trying to do an anti-gay storyline. I think they are behind it and always have been. But I don't think P&G (that's what I meant by saying the show's producers) was as committed as the EP & writers were, and hence it was P&G that was dragging their feet.Quote:And ATWT had them beat down the one vicious instance of homophobia they encountered. Actually, they've only been on the show about a full year, and there has been gay bashing twice. Luke was almost killed by Noah's homophobic father, don't forget, because Noah's father is a homophobic/murdering lunatic.On a completely other note, it's strange that the last two Luke and Noah storylines involve activities usually reserved for straight people. Those being marriage and now joining the military. Yes, gay marriage is allowed in two states, and yes, gays can join the military, just if they deny who they are. I wonder if that army's policy of don't ask, don't tell will even be brought up. Anyway, I just thought I would point out that I find it...interesting that Luke and Noah have been written storylines involving things that usually don't really include/want/I can't think of the right word - gays. It should be interesting to see how this story goes.

I think with the groundbreaking story of two gay men, ATWT has been extremely cautious. Even with that caution, they have gotten a lot of flak from anti-gay activists, look at some of the other message boards around. I can't even look at those anymore because they are so full of venom and hate on this and many other issues. The posters make personal attacks on actors and other such garbage. But I digress, maybe it has been very slow moving, but at least they are taking a chance...

i love the Luke and Noah storyline but there time were we have to fill in the missing pices. i like to see every beat be hit ofr their story.i try to not reed posteer that use vemon on their postings. i try to use the honey bec it does work.

I tape each episode and watch it. The reason why I continue is because of Luke and Noah. This couple is super. Great actors and they genuinely care about each other. So far the writers have kept them honest to each other which I really enjoy. This story like the two actors is beautiful.

Quote:I tape each episode and watch it. The reason why I continue is because of Luke and Noah. This couple is super. Great actors and they genuinely care about each other. So far the writers have kept them honest to each other which I really enjoy. This story like the two actors is beautiful. I'm with you, Cammtl. Van & Jake's friendship really is evident, isn't it? Luke and Noah are the main reason I watch the show and I know some people think Nuke fans are being greedy, but I really think they/we deserve more than 6 or 7 minutes crammed into 1 episode a week.

I was watching Bravo's GLAAD Media awards and I was surprise that Van Hansis and Jake Silberman wasn't up for any awards. However, I was happy to see the two guys kissing in the beginning scenes. We have come along way now. We have our own Award show. And lots of people were there.

Quote:I was watching Bravo's GLAAD Media awards and I was surprise that Van Hansis and Jake Silberman wasn't up for any awards. However, I was happy to see the two guys kissing in the beginning scenes. We have come along way now. We have our own Award show. And lots of people were there. Charmed - They (ATWT) actually did win an award which Jake & Van accepted. They were also presenters that evening, but BRAVO didn't air their segments.

Really? I would have liked to have seen their win. Thank you for informing me.

I think Luke and Noah are the "real deal" as far as soap couples go. The writers have given their relationship more character - it's more about the ins and outs of making a relationship work and not just about pure romance. They are so cute together and the actors are amazing!

The latest "Down the road" spoiler from Soaps.com sounds promising:Luke and Noah's romance moves forward.

I don't know how that could mean anything other than what we think it means. What else can they do? Move in together? Get engaged or married? Either of those would also entail having sex.It's finally going to happen. Thank goodness.

Well It happened. Parker and Liberty had sex 6 - 8 months after meeting while Luke and Noah has known each over a year and hasn't. Noah even bedded Maddie in the short weeks of meeting. Are the TPTB afraid? I'm sure the writers can come up with something that will move their relationship and give them some candle light, romance and even a slow dance. What does a guy have to do get a little loving from the guy he loves?

Quote: What does a guy have to do get a little loving from the guy he loves? Be on a non-P&G soap? That, or somehow make it so that none of the viewers watching at home are homophobic. I don't think, however, that either of those goals is attainable, so the only other thing you can do is that, as the show basically lowered themselves to what many thought was kiddie-porn like in nature, is hope that the Noah and Luke get the same treatment - ie, the build up, the aftermath, etc., that these two got...because if they don't, that would mean that the show thinks that their viewers are more comfortable w/ watching a 15 year old and 21 year old actress (15 and 16 year old characters, I think) who don't know what they're doing go at it over two mature adults in love that happen to be male.

I know right. I know the actors that portay P/L are just acting and they really didn't have sex but their characters did. But come on, Do people really want to know if two teenagers who are barely out of diapers have sex than two college students young adults who just happen to be both males have sex? Is society really want to know that? Are they really that closed minded? I thought times have changed some that people won't freak out over such matters when it comes to gay couples now. I guess not.